Peaceful Protest = Creating Chaos? (Updated - West Coast Event!)

Ok I think we've finally entered silly season here folks.  For a guy who got his big start by making a speech at an anti-war rally a few years back (a speech he seems to have built his entire campaign around), this statement by his campaign about this Saturday's protest at the DNC meeting in DC really does fly in the face of reason.

Apparently, one of his senior campaign managers (David Plouffe) told reporters during a recent presser that he didn't "think its a helpful dynamic to create chaos" at this meeting.

So let me get this straight... he hits the national scene by making a speech at a rally, but now we're not supposed to lobby for voting rights?  

Does anyone else see a serious disconnect in what Plouffe is saying here?

Well the folks who're helping to organize this chaotic dynamic (you know - the rally for voting rights?) have a few words to say in response to Plouffe's load of horse-pucky.  Take a look...

WOMENCOUNT PAC responds to Obama campaign's accusations of "creating chaos" at Saturday rally

San Francisco, CA  May 29, 2008 - WomenCount PAC strongly denounces the Obama campaign's claim that a planned rally before the DNC Rules Committee on Saturday is intended to "create chaos" and underscores that the event represents voters from more than 30 states gathering to stand up for the future of our country.

"We are coming to fight for a better world for our children and our grandchildren," said Susie Tompkins Buell, a founding member of WomenCount PAC. "So much is at stake in this election and we will not be accused of creating chaos when we are standing up for the democratic principle that every vote counts."

WomenCount PAC is a partner in the Count Every Vote '08 rally planned for Saturday, May 31st at the Marriott Wardman Hotel in Washington, D.C. The goal of the rally is to support the counting of every vote cast in Michigan and Florida.

In issuing this press release, the PAC is reacting to a comment made by Obama campaign manager David Plouffe who told reporters on Wednesday, "We don't think it's a helpful dynamic to create chaos" outside of the DNC meeting.

"We invited the Obama supporters to join with us in our efforts.  It is Senator Obama who continually speaks for raising our voices together and returning to the core democratic principles that formed this country," said Karen Feldman, the spokesperson for the Count Every Vote Rally '08 committee.  "Wasn't it Senator Obama who recently called for a change in Washington DC saying that every voice must count?"

"This is a civil rally aimed at exercising our first amendment right to free speech," said Rosemary Camposano, communications director for WomenCount PAC. "We believe strongly that the principles of our democracy are being compromised by having lawyers and small groups of people determine the outcome of elections rather than the democratic principal of `one person one vote'."

WomenCount PAC, in addition to supporting other women candidates for Congress in 2008, has endorsed Sen. Hillary Clinton's presidential campaign. The rally supports the PAC's message to continue the political process until every vote is cast and counted.

WomenCount PAC was created to ensure that the 51 percent of American citizens who are women have their values and votes counted in the political process.

Guys this latest statement by Plouffe is just another example of the double standards and sexism (yes sexism) that exists in this election process.  By claiming that our aim in rallying for voting rights is to create chaos around the decision process, he's trying to paint us "hysterical" or out of control.

We have no intent of causing chaos, so the only reason ther'd be chaos if their followers turned up is if they created it.  I'm sorry but that doesn't say much regarding his confidence that their folks can peacefully coexist with those rallying for voting rights.

See in their world, it's all right to speak out against an unjust war (and it is) but it's not all right to lobby decision-makers in the cause of full voting rights for over 2.3 million Americans.  That second bit is not only "ok" but it's the duty of every American who gives a shite about our basic freedoms.  Our right to vote is the cornerstone of our Democracy and for someone - especially a candidate for our Party's nomination for the highest office in the land to stand in the way of full representation of the voters (any voter!) is not only nuts - it's unthinkable!  We're Democrats and Democrats don't freaking do that.

Another cornerstone?  That'd be our freedom of speech - our right to peaceably assemble and make our voices heard.  Seems Obama's got a problem with that one as well.

And I'm sorry but if I ever hear him brag about all those new voters he's signing up or bringing into the "process" I'm going to scream.  The hypocrisy on so many levels here is just mind-blowing.

He can speak at rallies - but we can't assemble at one.  If we do we're creating chaos.

He can register voters - we're not allowed to exercise that right to vote once he's signed us up.

Only in Obama-land does this in any way shape or form make any sense.

I mean it's hardly like they're inviting rabble rousers like Abbie Hoffman (well they couldn't invite him - he's not with us any more) or domestic terrorists like that Ayers fella that Obama's known for all these years - is it.  

Here's a list of the scheduled speakers.  

WomenCount and Count Every Vote '08 Rally organizers announce speakers for DNC RBC rally May 31st

Stephanie Tubbs Jones, Kim Gandy and others to speak at rally

San Francisco, CA May 29, 2008 ~ The initial list of speakers for the rally in support of Count Every Vote '08 in Washington DC is being released.  Another 5 to10 speakers and celebrities will be announced one day later.

"We are very excited about the amount of support we are receiving from many prominent elected officials and organization leaders." announced Karen Feldman of Count Every Vote '08.  "These officials are as committed as we are to seeing that every vote cast in this election is counted fairly and proportionally.  They realize how high the stakes are if, once again, millions of voters feel their votes have been disregarded."

"My entire adult life has been dedicated to registering and inspiring young people to get involved and vote.  This is a logical continuation of that work.  How can we even think of ignoring 2.4 million voters in an election this close?" commented Jehmu Greene, who has agreed to emcee the rally.  "We must move away from the dangerous precedent of allowing small groups of people to determine the outcome of elections."

The following speakers are planned to address the rally crowd beginning at 9:45am.  The event will begin at the Marriott Wardman Park Hotel at 7:00am Saturday, May 31st and continue until the DNC Rules and Bylaws Committee has announced their decision.  A detailed time schedule will be released on Friday as well as 5 to 10 additional speakers and celebrities.

The speakers are:

Congresswoman Stephanie Tubbs Jones, OH 11th Congressional District
Congresswoman Corrine Brown, FL 3rd Congressional District
2008 Congressional Candidate Eric Massa, NY 29th Congressional District
Ambassador Elizabeth Bagley, Former US Ambassador to Portugal and Senior Adviser to Secretary Madeleine Albright
Kim Gandy, President of the National Organization for Women (NOW)
Brent Wilkes, National Executive Director, League of United Latin American Citizens (LULAC)
Jehmu Greene, Former President of Rock the Vote
Lulu Flores, President, National Women's Political Caucus
Amy Rao, Founder, Integrated Archive Systems and President, 11th Hour Project
Reverend Marcia Dyson, African-American Minister from Washington, DC
Jim Hannagan, Founder, Florida Demands Representation

###

WomenCount PAC was created to ensure that the 51 percent of American citizens who are women have their values and votes counted in the political process.

Hmmm... Rock the Vote, President of NOW, Members of Congress, Ambassadors, members of the clergy... yeah we'd better watch out for that crowd - they mean trouble!

I'll be at this rally on Saturday (and no before you KosBoyz go after me for bringing my kids - we found a sitter), and I hope anyone who cares about voting rights will join us in DC on Saturday at 7 am at the Marriott Wardman Park Hotel (2660 Woodley Rd NW, Washington, DC MAP).

Need more info?  Email me.

U P D A T E

They've just added a west coast event tomorrow (Friday) as a sort of kick-off event for this, and to publicize the fact that they've collected 300,000 signatures on a petition to Howard Dean. Check it out...

'It's No Joke! Count Every Vote' Democracy Rally to Seat 100% of the Florida and Michigan Delegates and 100% of the Votes Cast at the World's Famous Laugh Factory in Hollywood

Place: WORLD'S FAMOUS LAUGH FACTORY 8001 SUNSET BLVD. WEST HOLLYWOOD, CA 90049 When: FRIDAY, MAY 30TH 2008 Time: 11:00 a.m. to 1:00 p.m. *WE MUST COUNT EVERY VOTE! *A record 2.35 million voters from Florida and Michigan participated in their respective primaries. It is un-American for their voices to be silenced. Their votes must be reflected in this process. *A decision must be made by May 31st so that the Florida and Michigan delegations can have a meaningful participation in the Democratic National Convention. * Florida and Michigan will be crucial states in the general election. We cannot afford to alienate the voters in these key states if we have any hope to win the general election.

(PRWEB) May 29, 2008 -- We have over 300,000 signatures!

How can we, as Democrats, brag about registering a million new voters while disenfranchising 2.3 million voters? There will be a press conference with special guest speakers and a FedEx person on hand to overnight the signatures to Howard Dean and the DNC Bylaws and Rules Committee.

Host:

Teri Bernardi, author of the upcoming book THE GAME OF LIFE & HOW TO PLAY IT WORKBOOK from DeVross Publishing, the leading metaphysical publishing house in the world. She is also President of Green Grown Products (a green company).

Chris Jackson, writer/actor/activist and former Chairman of Reverend Jesse Jackson's Operation PUSH Rainbow PUSH Hollywood Committee and consultant to the Citizen Education Fund.

This will be the only grassroots event on the West Coast the day before Howard Dean and the DNC Bylaws and Rules Committee meet in Washington, D.C. to decide in essence who may be closer to becoming the Democratic Party's nominee.

SPECIAL GUESTS: PAUL RODRIGUEZ (Comedian) PAUL MOONEY (Comedian) JAMIE MASADA (Laugh Factory Owner) DANA BALICKI (Code Pink - Stop the War Grassroots Movement) ERIKA ALEXANDER (Actress from Living Single and Hillary Clinton surrogate speaker) STEVEN YABARRA (Super Delegate)

Hundreds are scheduled to attend the LAUGH FACTORY RALLY so this will be an incredible photo opportunity for your newscast, magazine or newspaper with plenty of interview opportunities with comedians, activists and both Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama supporters. Even a few Republicans will be on hand who have switched parties to support Democratic nominee in 2008.

PRESS CONTACT: Chris Jackson (323) 936-5210 or (310)895-3590 emergency cell email: loveallanimals2002@yahoo.com

http://my.barackobama.com/page/event/detail/communityservice/4qzk

Yesssss... that's right. This event is posted at Sen. Obama's site so maybe this is about voting rights. Food for thought.



Display:


Re: Peaceful Protest = Creating Chaos? (2.00 / 16)

I thought we were in favor of voting rights.


Donate to Hillary Now!
by alegre on Thu May 29, 2008 at 10:04:00 PM EST

Finally entered the silly season? (1.90 / 11)

Is that snark?



McCain
by Black Anus on Thu May 29, 2008 at 10:04:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Finally entered the silly season? (1.90 / 11)

For Alegre to actually acknoledge how silly the season has always been........

THIS MUST BE SNARK!


http://www.truepat.org/
by CrushTheGOP2008 on Thu May 29, 2008 at 10:05:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Seriously (1.46 / 15)

Isn't it past your bed time?


Donate to Hillary Now!
by alegre on Thu May 29, 2008 at 10:07:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Seriously (2.00 / 8)

Well at least you didnt call me "boy"

Although you did in your last post


http://www.truepat.org/
by CrushTheGOP2008 on Thu May 29, 2008 at 10:08:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Seriously (2.00 / 5)

I won't make an obnoxious comment like you did, but your whole argument is wrong, as I've explained below.

Short version -- He wasn't saying that one group of demonstrators would produce chaos.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Thu May 29, 2008 at 10:10:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Is this how you get votes - (2.00 / 5)

YOU'RE WRONG! Vote for my guy! So enchanting and seductive!


by catfish2 on Thu May 29, 2008 at 10:13:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Is this how you get votes - (2.00 / 8)

New rules:

One can't correct the diarist's statements of facts -- which are in fact wrong.

Also, one can't complain when the diarist insults posters.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Thu May 29, 2008 at 10:19:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Old Rules: ask for their votes (2.00 / 3)

do not insult them into submission, it doesn't work!


by catfish2 on Thu May 29, 2008 at 10:31:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Old Rules: ask for their votes (2.00 / 3)

I haven't insulted anyone.  I'd just like the diarist to correct the diary.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Thu May 29, 2008 at 10:37:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Old Rules: ask for their votes (2.00 / 3)

Catfish has to be a chaos troll.  Nobody is that obtuse.



Lost rate and rec for issuing a '1' to a trollish comment. The troll, not so much.

by map on Thu May 29, 2008 at 10:52:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Obtuse is an insult. (1.00 / 0)

Serious question - how old are you?


by catfish2 on Fri May 30, 2008 at 05:28:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Seriously (none / 0)

He doesn't want his supporters to attend the meeting because he doesn't want to be associated with signs like:

"Process Over People"

"Stop Counting the Votes"

"Punish Michigan"

"Florida Should Never Vote Again"

"Honor Rule 20.C.1.a"

Obama's position on this matter is a total embarrassment both for him and the party.  It's pretty obvious why he doesn't want publicity associated with his stealth stance against millions of voters and two major states.

If I were attending the rally, I'd just bring a sign with Michigan and Florida colored in red.  


Young lifelong Democrat. One of over 3,000,000 voters who kicked McCain and Palin out of Pennsylvania, permanently.
by BPK80 on Fri May 30, 2008 at 04:24:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]

you are (2.00 / 6)

trolling and spamming.


Washington Woman

Progressive Blue

by kevin22262 on Thu May 29, 2008 at 10:18:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: you are (2.00 / 6)

Any amount of money you want says that this is someone who was banned for tr'ing Alegra when she said that.

I'm not excusing trolling and spamming, but I am saying that when 20-odd posters were stripped of their rec'ing privileges, the fact that Alegre would from that point forward be unable to post anything without a million *Is this snark?*s filling up her diaries was 100% predictable.


If you hold a cat by the tail you learn things you cannot learn any other way.
by Jess81 on Thu May 29, 2008 at 10:26:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: you are (2.00 / 5)

Jerome made a huge mistake doing that.

And of course Alegre came out the next day, said something to the effect of:
It wasnt me, but screw you guys anyways you got what you deserved.

And people wonder why.

Politics is never a one way street, only Republicans believe that and look where it got them!


http://www.truepat.org/
by CrushTheGOP2008 on Thu May 29, 2008 at 10:31:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Jerome loves Alegra. (1.50 / 2)

Can't stand Obama. So there you go.
I can't wait until these haters make fools of themselves by disrupting the process on Saturday. They'll make the ugly republican  thugs who shut down the recount look good.
I support our nominee President Barack Obama - and the Admins can't stand me, so I can't rec or rate. This is very mean if you were to ask me.
by TheFullBerry on Thu May 29, 2008 at 11:43:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: you are (2.00 / 2)

I really wonder about many of you.

Why do you do these stupid things? What are you trying to accomplish?

Are you still in high school or what?

geeez.

"Hope, Unity and Change" - great words ... if you live them and believe in them.


Washington Woman

Progressive Blue

by kevin22262 on Thu May 29, 2008 at 10:49:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

are you (2.00 / 2)

a snark?


Washington Woman

Progressive Blue

by kevin22262 on Thu May 29, 2008 at 10:58:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I am so happy for you (1.00 / 1)

and all of your off spring.

way to go! Way to show what a proud O supporter you are!

WhooHoo!


Washington Woman

Progressive Blue

by kevin22262 on Thu May 29, 2008 at 11:02:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

uh (2.00 / 2)

no you are not.

see ya.


Washington Woman

Progressive Blue

by kevin22262 on Thu May 29, 2008 at 11:22:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I am so happy for you (none / 0)

I'd like to remind you that the term "Obamapod" is an attack on other users and against the guidelines of this site.


by Djo Dos on Thu May 29, 2008 at 11:30:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

by the way (none / 0)

I am one of those weird ones that kind of likes that song and the video cracks me up.

So... thanks. Now I know you really care!  


Washington Woman

Progressive Blue

by kevin22262 on Thu May 29, 2008 at 11:40:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Is your troll rating snark? (2.00 / 1)

well at least it's easy to see who's sock-puppet you are


by zerosumgame on Thu May 29, 2008 at 11:12:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Seriously (none / 0)

That's definitely snark.  Bad snark.  But snark.


by Same As It Ever Was on Thu May 29, 2008 at 11:32:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

STOP CALLING OBAMA SUPPORTERS BOYZ. (none / 0)

You hypocrisy is vulgar, crude, and ugly.
Go run to Jerome now little girl and cry.
See? You don't like that too much, do you?
Disgusting.
I support our nominee President Barack Obama - and the Admins can't stand me, so I can't rec or rate. This is very mean if you were to ask me.
by TheFullBerry on Thu May 29, 2008 at 11:39:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Finally entered the silly season? (1.66 / 3)

No, Alegre's become a troll, is all. But that's to be expected.


Serious question- Is This Snark?
by ragekage on Thu May 29, 2008 at 10:42:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Finally entered the silly season? (none / 0)

Exactly.


Serious question- Is This Snark?
by ragekage on Thu May 29, 2008 at 11:04:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Finally entered the silly season? (2.00 / 1)

TR"s for off-topic bandwidth hogging spam of unattributed probably copyrighted material in violation of fair use.


by trytobereal on Thu May 29, 2008 at 11:17:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You undermine your own work... (2.00 / 1)

...after posting a couple of the best diaries I've seen from you all season--and the first things I've ever rec'd from you--you go and screw up all that heart-tugging (apparently disingenuous) unity prose with cheap-shot comments like this?

So much hypocrisy...so little time.


by bobswern on Thu May 29, 2008 at 11:37:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You undermine your own work... (2.00 / 3)

Uh huh.

Bob, we may disagree, but how many times have I made a point in regards to a diary of yours, and not stuck around to defend it? Or vice versa- how many times have you just ignored it?

I don't think ever. No, you stand and fight it, and while we may disagree, you don't just give up, do you? And you don't engage in ad hominem attacks, usually- at least, not as a stand alone. You certainly do get personal at times, but I think it's amusing rather than insulting. It's tough times, we're all on edge, I can understand it.

However, I've never seen Alegre do this, ever. She never sticks around for hard discourse, she's never up to taking a serious look at the disingenuous things she writes- she doesn't even try. And she regularly relies on ad hominem attacks to carry the day for her, or real Clinton supporters to try and step up and carry her weight, like you.

This far from a cheap shot. This is a biting commentary of the diarist's inability to actually raise the level of discourse. If it weren't for the HI44 crew she gets to auto-rec her diaries every time they come on the list, then she wouldn't even get on the rec list.

See, someone like you, we have sharp words, but I still respect you as a person. Like here- you're standing up for something you believe in. That's something Alegre would never do for you, and between the two of you, I'd damn well rather have you on my side, and consider you to be a proper representative of a Clinton supporter.

But that's just what I think; think what you will.


Serious question- Is This Snark?
by ragekage on Thu May 29, 2008 at 11:46:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Exactly who are the... (none / 0)

...HI44 crew she gets to auto-rec her diaries?



by bobswern on Fri May 30, 2008 at 12:31:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Exactly who are the... (2.00 / 2)

Pop open her rec list, and compare 'em. dot48, 1950sDemocrat, there's a bunch of them in there, and if you'll notice that they never respond to the thread- or any thread, for that matter- but quickly and instantly recommend her work regardless of the content, whereas you and I have to work damn hard to write a good diary and hope people actually appreciate the content to get it on the rec list.


Serious question- Is This Snark?
by ragekage on Fri May 30, 2008 at 12:47:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Exactly who are the... (none / 0)

Good old Dot,

dot48 Says:
May 6th, 2008 at 9:42 pm
...The whites need to step up or be shit outta luck with this dude and his creepy anti American background and his hateful wife.
-end quote.


McCainuire, The Wrath Of Not Enough Naps.
by catilinus on Fri May 30, 2008 at 05:11:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]

This is definitely troll behavior (2.00 / 2)

Just look at Plouffe's full quote:

"Obviously, with the click of a mouse it would be pretty easy for us in the mid-Atlantic to get thousands of people there, but we don't think it's a helpful dynamic to create chaos and in the interest of party unity, we're encouraging our supporters not to protest."

For fucksakes, how could it not be crystal clear that he's stating that the Obama people have been asked to stay away in order to avoid the possibility of a nasty confrontation? How does someone look at this and conclude he's accusing the Clinton gathering of creating chaos on their own?

Note also Alegre's use of the word "Allegedly" to introduce the quote. In other words alegre knows damn well what he said, it just looks better when she puts it in her own warped context instead of the original.

Fuck that. You write a full frigging diary about a quote that you had to take out of context to make it seem inflammatory? People are reccing this shit?

What trash. This is the lowest form of troll bullshit.


by 79blondini on Fri May 30, 2008 at 02:24:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This is definitely troll behavior (none / 0)

She's just grasping . . .


by vadasz on Fri May 30, 2008 at 03:27:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Finally entered the silly season? (1.00 / 1)

Did you read past the 1st line?


TexasDarlin blog
by TexasDarlin on Fri May 30, 2008 at 12:42:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Finally entered the silly season? (1.33 / 3)

Yes, I did, thanks for asking. And let me tell you: it was painful! As about 2,000 commenters have pointed out, Alegra was dead wrong on her interpretation of Plouffe's comments. But did she acknowledge that in any way, or pull her diary? Of course not. That would seem to pretty strongly imply that Allergy's completely uninterested in any intellectually honest debate or discussion. Wouldn't you agree?

By the way, I never get past the first line of your stupid ass diaries.



McCain
by Black Anus on Fri May 30, 2008 at 12:52:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Finally entered the silly season? (2.00 / 2)

Hide rate abuse, ex, Tex? I think your time has come and gone here at MyDD. We don't need your brand of vitriol, rhetoric, and invective anymore. But thanks anyway!


Serious question- Is This Snark?
by ragekage on Fri May 30, 2008 at 01:13:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]

It's not about voting rights. Corinne Brown's (none / 0)

district went for Obama heavily.

Stephanie Tubbs-Jones went for Obama even more heavily.


by bobdoleisevil on Thu May 29, 2008 at 10:05:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Umm Yeah... (2.00 / 4)

Deval Patrick
John Kerry
Ted Kennedy (may he beat his illness)

See? Two can play this game.


Donate to Hillary Now!
by alegre on Thu May 29, 2008 at 10:08:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

They're protesting Democrats? Really? (2.00 / 1)

Are you sure?


by bobdoleisevil on Thu May 29, 2008 at 10:10:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Peaceful Protest = Creating Chaos? (2.00 / 4)

I wish you guys would find a real issue to protest.  Like voting rights.


If you hold a cat by the tail you learn things you cannot learn any other way.
by Jess81 on Thu May 29, 2008 at 10:07:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Peaceful Protest = Creating Chaos? (2.00 / 7)

I've corrected your misstatements of the facts below
http://www.mydd.com/comments/2008/5/29/2 232/22911/13#13

Now that you see where you misunderstood what Plouffe said, I'm sure you'll quickly correct the diary.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Thu May 29, 2008 at 10:22:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

We're in favor of honest analysis (2.00 / 9)

Here's the FULL quote which you've taken out of contest:

   "We are not encouraging our people to gather and protest on Saturday," he said. "With the click of a mouse it would be pretty easy for us in the Mid-Atlantic to gather thousands of people."

   "We don't think it's a helpful dynamic to create chaos," he said, citing the interests of "party unity" as "we wind down the primary."


by reconad on Thu May 29, 2008 at 10:39:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: We're in favor of honest analysis (2.00 / 8)

Yeah, the chaos would come from having dueling demonstrations. That's what Plouffe said could be easily organized but that they would refrain from organizing as not to produce chaos.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Thu May 29, 2008 at 10:42:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I thought we were in favor of reality. (2.00 / 3)

because it seems all you can do is misrepresent it.

Honestly Alegre, did it ever occur to you that it's not about YOU?

Jesus Christ are you DONE yet?  When is this idiocy going to end?  


by DawnG on Thu May 29, 2008 at 10:51:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I thought we were in favor of reality. (2.00 / 1)

never.  Whether or not Hillary concedes, she'll be pushing for her right up until the convention.  And when Obama is the nominee, I'm sure she'll be out there stumping for McCain.

She's delusional and dishonest, and every diary proves it.


It's all about McCain/Bush now...
by thereisnospoon on Thu May 29, 2008 at 11:25:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

But why is that celebrated here? (2.00 / 2)

People throw out diaries accusing Obama of ridculous sins that NEVER HAPPENED.  They project all the evils of the world on him but that's just fine and dandy.

It's downright pathalogical!  when are we going to get beyond this?


by DawnG on Thu May 29, 2008 at 11:34:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I thought we were in favor of reality. (2.00 / 2)

No I don't think it has occured to her.  I'm interested from a psychological standpoint as to how she will react to Obama's inevitable claiming of the nomination.

Denial, acceptance, or anger?  Maybe she will continue to produce the same 'disconnected from reality drivel' that has been her hallmark here as of late.  

I'm interested to see how the Hillary dead-enders handle the endgame.


by cato on Fri May 30, 2008 at 01:22:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Peaceful Protest = Creating Chaos? (2.00 / 1)

isn't that what all the Clinton supporters are calling what Obama supporters threaten to do in Denver if she manages by some miracle to thieve the nomination?


It's all about McCain/Bush now...
by thereisnospoon on Thu May 29, 2008 at 11:21:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Peaceful Protest = Creating Chaos? (2.00 / 4)

It's sexist to suggest an angry mob outside a committee meeting is unhelpful???

Sigh.


by Same As It Ever Was on Thu May 29, 2008 at 11:27:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Voting rights - but only if they favor Clinton? (none / 0)

Clinton supporters seem to have just the opposite view when it comes to Collin County, Texas.


by kevinwparker on Thu May 29, 2008 at 11:40:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Peaceful Protest = Creating Chaos? (2.00 / 2)

Why didn't Hillary fight for innocent lives when the Iraq war vote was taking place? That was a more serious issue. Is your outrage all revolving around a cult of perosnality?


by Pravin on Fri May 30, 2008 at 12:14:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: (2.00 / 2)

reaching alegre.....always reaching


by citizendave on Thu May 29, 2008 at 10:05:46 PM EST

Re: (2.00 / 1)

So did anyone notice what is missing from the Diary?

Pick three permanent items in an Alegre diary, and figure out whats missing.

Quite profound considering the history here.


http://www.truepat.org/
by CrushTheGOP2008 on Thu May 29, 2008 at 10:14:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Donate gang? (2.00 / 8)


_____________
changiness
by lizardbox on Thu May 29, 2008 at 10:16:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Donate gang? (2.00 / 3)

Bingo, you win a prize of heavy mojo.


http://www.truepat.org/
by CrushTheGOP2008 on Thu May 29, 2008 at 10:20:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Donate gang? (2.00 / 2)

No call out to the superdelegates either.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Thu May 29, 2008 at 10:44:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: (2.00 / 4)

No Hillary headshot.


From a Hillary supporter: We laughed as that became our mantra - "Barack can't win!"..... ....."he can go to hell and i'll pay for his way there."
by Cochrane on Thu May 29, 2008 at 10:20:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: (2.00 / 1)

DOH!

I totally missed that.

Maybe she is doing Hillary a favor and not associating her face and raising money with some embarrassing attempt to disrupt the nominating process.


http://www.truepat.org/
by CrushTheGOP2008 on Thu May 29, 2008 at 10:23:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

She also doesn't have a link to anty of this... (2.00 / 3)

if she did.  It would have been even quicker for people to point out that Plouffe was not speaking about Clinton supporters protesting, but competing protests from both sides leading to chaos.  But these diaries have become more and more desperate in recent days, so I guess when you're desperate harder to include the supporting evidence.


John McCain wants you to be poor!
by nklein on Thu May 29, 2008 at 10:23:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: She also doesn't have a link to anty of this.. (none / 0)

Wrong. Plouffe is threatening the very foundations of democracy.



McCain
by Black Anus on Thu May 29, 2008 at 10:37:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Hey, stop picking on alegre (1.66 / 3)

Alegre has been one of hillary's most effective supporters.

Back in the summer of 2007, HIllary was a distant 3rd to Edwards and Obama.  Remember, Hillary finished 3rd in Iowa.

But with the help of alegre, Hillary has inspired new voters to her side and HIllary has been the comeback kid.

Without Alegre, Hillary never would have won New Hampshire or many of the Super Tuesday states.

And now, Hillary has WON THE SECOND HALF.

Yes she's won the second half thanks to alegre's spirt, alegre's honesty, and HIllary's willingness to be associated with this honest, ethical blogger.


by HillsMyGirl on Thu May 29, 2008 at 10:30:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Let's be clear (none / 0)

Alegra is far out of reach.


by reconad on Thu May 29, 2008 at 11:06:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Best ... username ... ever. (1.50 / 2)


by bobdoleisevil on Thu May 29, 2008 at 10:05:51 PM EST

Ok Kiddies... (1.33 / 15)

Time to toddle off home now - it's getting dark and the park's closing for the day.

Scoot now!


Donate to Hillary Now!
by alegre on Thu May 29, 2008 at 10:09:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ok Kiddies... (2.00 / 7)

What ever happened to your commitment to civil dialogue and your distaste for name-calling?


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Thu May 29, 2008 at 10:11:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

She's an age bigot. (2.00 / 2)

Hide-worthy, naturally.


by bobdoleisevil on Thu May 29, 2008 at 10:12:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ok Kiddies... (2.00 / 3)

are you kidding me that you are participating in this?


"Democracy! Bah! When I hear that I reach for my feather Boa!" Allen Ginsberg
by canadian gal on Thu May 29, 2008 at 10:23:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ok Kiddies... (2.00 / 7)

Participating in what? I'm trying to correct the diarist's misstatement of facts.

Contrary to what the diary says, Ploufee did NOT say that one demonstration would produce chaos.

He said that the Obama campaign would not organize counter-demonstrations.

If facts are wrong, it should be more than acceptable to correct them.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Thu May 29, 2008 at 10:28:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

come on now... (2.00 / 3)

thats not what you were doing in that comment at all.

for the most part - any diary that isnt pro-BO or anti-HRC is inundated with idiotic comments, general nastiness and attacking the diarist.  there are a some users that are exceptions here and i thought you were one of them.

you know - if this continues much longer alot of people will leave mydd, myself included.  when did this group of bullies become the arbiters of what's allowed here? what a disgrace.


"Democracy! Bah! When I hear that I reach for my feather Boa!" Allen Ginsberg
by canadian gal on Thu May 29, 2008 at 10:35:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: come on now... (2.00 / 2)

I asked if the diarist believed in civil dialogue after she posted this comment:

Time to toddle off home now - it's getting dark and the park's closing for the day.

Scoot now!

which I found to be insulting and uncivil.

CG, do you really think that's a good example of how people should be talking to each other? I think it's not and one of the kinds of things that inflames folks.  If we are going to, as you put it, just stop this, it has to be on all sides.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Thu May 29, 2008 at 10:40:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: come on now... (2.00 / 2)

all sides?  i agree.  but if every diary you posted was filled with this nonsense, i think you would lose your cool too.

but as they say - all it takes for evil to prevail is for good people to do nothing.


"Democracy! Bah! When I hear that I reach for my feather Boa!" Allen Ginsberg
by canadian gal on Thu May 29, 2008 at 10:50:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: come on now... (2.00 / 3)

I agree that "is it snark" repeated over and over again is obnoxious and certainly doesn't contribute to good dialogue or community-building.

My understanding is that some are posting that repetitively to poke fun at the diarist who was quite prolific in its use.

In other words, rather than responding to the substance of arguments, the diarist often asked "Is it snark?"

It was rather annoying then and it is rather annoying now as well.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Thu May 29, 2008 at 10:58:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

boo the hell hoo. (1.50 / 2)

poor alegra. always the victim. always crying. always everyone is picking on her as she bats her troll eyelashes and goes "oh who meeeeeeeee? wah. "  she pulled this same crap on Daily Kos. Starting huge problems by writing vicious, ugly, nasty cruel smear jobs against Obama and his supporter that were filled with lies. Then getting questioned on it - and then posting ugly one line nasty replies.
Then of course she ran off the blog crying every night, only to repeat this passive aggressive behavior the next night for months.
She had to leave because no one could take her abusive behavior any longer. And now she pulls it here. People get upset with her. And you blame the true victims.
This is beyond pathetic
I support our nominee President Barack Obama - and the Admins can't stand me, so I can't rec or rate. This is very mean if you were to ask me.
by TheFullBerry on Thu May 29, 2008 at 11:48:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: come on now... (1.75 / 4)

CG, Alegre's stopped being a paragon of... well, anything, and moved right into troll territory. If you want to think I'm biased in saying that, fine, but for instance, you or Sricki would never post drivel like this- and you'd certainly stick around to make your point instead of engaging in hit and run ad hominem attacks.

For instance, if you have a problem with me or something I've said, I've come to expect you'll damn well stand up for yourself and the point you're trying to make, and I expect no less. However, I've never seen Alegre do that.

She may be on your team, but I don't think she's the kind of person you want representing you. I think you're a helluva better representative of Clinton than her- and you're not even American.


Serious question- Is This Snark?
by ragekage on Thu May 29, 2008 at 10:46:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: come on now... (2.00 / 2)

That's exactly what they want.  They want this site to become a Kos-like echo chamber.


by Tolstoy on Thu May 29, 2008 at 11:09:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: come on now... (2.00 / 1)

Hi Luntz!  Or is it Big Dave now?  I'd guess maybe B.J. Bob, but though obnoxious, he's too intelligent and mature to play little boy games.  Well, go on about your pranks.  Eventually you'll end up in the principal's office or juvenile dentention.


by Tolstoy on Thu May 29, 2008 at 11:38:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Hey be quiet Obama supporter (2.00 / 2)

She never calls anybody names.

She is always civil

She is the best blogger on the internet

She will be voted the most honest blogger in the internet in 2008

Stop being sexist.


by HillsMyGirl on Thu May 29, 2008 at 10:26:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

WTF? (2.00 / 4)

Is your problem...  with young people?


by reconad on Thu May 29, 2008 at 10:15:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: WTF? (2.00 / 4)

WTF?  

It is not about "young" people, it is how some O supporters act like kids, children, spoiled brats, etc.

Get it?


Washington Woman

Progressive Blue

by kevin22262 on Thu May 29, 2008 at 10:20:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: WTF? (2.00 / 2)

Oh, c'mon now.  Kids will be kids.  I think someone's cranky!


by reconad on Thu May 29, 2008 at 10:22:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: WTF? (2.00 / 3)

Could you give an example, please, and also distinguish it from the diarist getting the premise of the diary wrong and not acknowledging it or making a correction?


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Thu May 29, 2008 at 10:23:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You know what (2.00 / 3)

it is HER diary NOT yours.

I need to give you an example of some O supporters acting like kids? Oh my god!

Let me just point to ONE and I believe this is a sock puppet for another user, "IsItSnark".

There are so many more.

It is absolutly stupid the way so many of you clamor to alegre's diaries and other Clinton diaries simply to be snarky, trollish, kids.

Once again... if you think or know that O has this all sewn up, then WHY do so many of you O supporters troll around just to cause trouble?

"Hope, Unity and Change" - wonderful words.... if you live them and believe in them.

hm.


Washington Woman

Progressive Blue

by kevin22262 on Thu May 29, 2008 at 10:28:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You know what (2.00 / 4)

I agree that some Obama supporters are childish. But that doesn't mean that Clinton supporters should label all critiques as such and this does happen around here.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Thu May 29, 2008 at 10:29:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You know what (2.00 / 1)

I do not label all O supporters as kids. Only the ones that act like kids.


Washington Woman

Progressive Blue

by kevin22262 on Thu May 29, 2008 at 10:40:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You know what (2.00 / 4)

If Alegra wants to keep her diary to herself, she should print it out and hang it from her fridge.  Otherwise, her words are open for debate.  (Posting at No Quarter might serve a similar purpose.)


by reconad on Thu May 29, 2008 at 10:31:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You know what (2.00 / 1)

posting trollish spam is BS.


Washington Woman

Progressive Blue

by kevin22262 on Thu May 29, 2008 at 10:39:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You know what (2.00 / 2)

Yes, continue posting that comment throughout this diary.  It helps you make your point more clearly.


by reconad on Thu May 29, 2008 at 10:42:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You know what (2.00 / 1)

I do... ?

Give me a break. I think I posted it a couple of times. But the snark "person has posted their spam how many times, in how many diaries and many of you O supporters give this person mojo?

give

me

a

break.


Washington Woman

Progressive Blue

by kevin22262 on Thu May 29, 2008 at 10:46:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You know what (1.50 / 2)

I

really

like

the

way

that

you

illustrate

your

point

using

creative

posting

methods.


by reconad on Thu May 29, 2008 at 10:51:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You know what (2.00 / 2)

I am glad you like it.

okie


Washington Woman

Progressive Blue

by kevin22262 on Thu May 29, 2008 at 10:56:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You know what (2.00 / 3)

Back to the main event....

Alegra's diaries get the treatment that they deserve.  They're thoughtless cut and paste campaign astroturf efforts.  Last night, she went so far as to repost one of her favorites.  She's not willing to engage in any sort of discourse.  As such, they're nothing more than an open comment thread.  I think it would be nice if someone would post some recipes.

Further, I don't suspect that even she is surprised to see her own words used against her.  She's shown disdain for Obama and his supporters and seems to relish the scorn that her diaries inevitably attract.  


by reconad on Thu May 29, 2008 at 11:04:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You know what (2.00 / 1)

First off, the way SHE chooses to make and post her diaries is HER choice not yours!

WHO cares if she reposted an old diary. Really... who cares? Did it harm you in some way?

Engage in discourse? Oh god.... what happens is her diaries become full of crap comments. Also, please tell me where it says that you MUST "engage" in the comments?

I do not hate Obama or his supporters. What I hate are the asshole "O Kids" that pollute diaries with their trollish spam comments. It is why I rarely go to Dkos anymore (even before Edwards dropped out - he was my first choice). The kids took over at Dkos, especially after markos decided to go the bash and hate route towards the Clintons and anyone who supports them.

Alegre's diaries deserve no more trolling and spamming then any "name" Obama supporters diaries do. It is BS to do so.

If you want to challenge what she says in her diaries and post your n"facts" or your "corrections", then great. Why do you think you deserve a personal response just for doing so? Because you are a "blogger"?


Washington Woman

Progressive Blue

by kevin22262 on Thu May 29, 2008 at 11:16:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You know what (2.00 / 1)

You're right, she is free to post whatever she likes.  But to pretend that she's adding anything to the discourse is disingenuous at best.  As I said, she posts virtually nothing but cut and paste bullet points from the Clinton camp and never answers any questions or criticisms of her posts.  As such, I ask you:  What point do they serve?  This is a small community of posters.  Surely, she doesn't think that an Obama supporter is going to read the talking points and say "Holy shit, what was I thinking, I'd better run off to Washington and protest before it's too late?"  Nope.  The only movement in thinking seems to occur in the comments.  Through dialog.  And yes, her diaries are littered with meaningless snipes.  I believe that by avoiding any real discourse, she's to blame.  (Not to mention her drive by "Is this snark" comment which started the whole kerfuffle.)  


by reconad on Thu May 29, 2008 at 11:29:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Is this serious? (none / 0)

Snark question.


by grass on Thu May 29, 2008 at 11:49:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You know what (2.00 / 2)

If Alegra wants to keep her diary to herself, she should print it out and hang it from her fridge.

HA!!! Awesome comment.


Lost rate and rec for issuing a '1' to a trollish comment. The troll, not so much.

by map on Thu May 29, 2008 at 10:58:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You know what (2.00 / 1)

isn't it!? Wow!

I want to thank each and every one of you for spreading all the warm and fuzzies! You are all so awesome!


Washington Woman

Progressive Blue

by kevin22262 on Thu May 29, 2008 at 11:05:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

My Heavens! (none / 0)

Do I detect the slightest trace of sarcasm?


by reconad on Thu May 29, 2008 at 11:08:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: My Heavens! (none / 0)

(Checks sarcasm detector)

Are you kidding?  This baby's off the charts!


by Captain Bathrobe on Fri May 30, 2008 at 01:47:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You know what (1.66 / 3)

Get over yourself.  

The diarist routinely posts completely false propaganda and then refuses to correct it.  Most people long ago stopped even attempting to have a dialog with her, which is the reason she fled from DKoS.

I agree the "is this snark" thing is out of control, but that's more a response to Jerome's knee jerk overreaction than it is to anything Alegre did.



Lost rate and rec for issuing a '1' to a trollish comment. The troll, not so much.

by map on Thu May 29, 2008 at 11:08:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You know what (none / 0)

You get over your self righteous self.

She "fled" from dkos? HA!

I also rarely go to dkos anymore because of what the O kids did and do over there. I would post a simple rah rah diary and a push for fund raising and support and it would get spammed and bombarded with tons of hate filled, obnoxious, arrogant asses posting crap comments!

So... get of your high horse and remember these words... try and live and believe in them... OK?...

Hope, Unity and Change - aren't these words just swell!?


Washington Woman

Progressive Blue

by kevin22262 on Thu May 29, 2008 at 11:21:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You know what (2.00 / 2)

She "fled" from dkos? HA!

Actually, yeah.  People got tired of her never responding on substance and began openly  mocking her, and she fled.  You are seeing the same dynamic here.


Lost rate and rec for issuing a '1' to a trollish comment. The troll, not so much.

by map on Thu May 29, 2008 at 11:26:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You know what (2.00 / 1)

I sense a strike coming on!


by Same As It Ever Was on Thu May 29, 2008 at 11:36:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

A few lines from her DKOS swan song (none / 0)

Sadly, the majority of the administrators have allowed this hostile environment to develop in our online community for anyone who isn't planted firmly in the Obama camp.  They've routinely ignored personal attacks and allowed disruptive, spam-like posts to go unchecked whenever anyone expresses support for Hillary or challenges something their candidate has said or done.  There are however several front-pagers who have managed to avoid taking part in the attacks on Hillary and for that I'm grateful.  But the site has grown to the point where they simply can't - or won't monitor it.  

As a result, our community has become little more than an echo chamber with an attitude that harkens back to the early days of Dubbya's administration - yer either with us or yer a'gin us, heh!  The attackers and disrupters are no better than Chris Matthews with their sexism, hate, lies, and obsession with bashing - all - things - Hillary.


by reconad on Thu May 29, 2008 at 11:38:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Wait... (none / 0)

That really was snark!!!


by Djo Dos on Thu May 29, 2008 at 11:49:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: WTF? (1.66 / 3)

I know.

Almost all of Obama's supporters are these young people.

They are a bunch of spoiled brats.

All rich spoiled br