Primary challenges and the presidential race

       The NY Times has a most illuminating piece this morning about how many of Senator Clinton's African American supporters are facing primary challenges from angry supporters of Senator Barack Obama. (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/01/us/pol itics/01dems.html?_r=1&ref=politics& amp;oref=slogin)
        This is of great interest to me, for in spite of the unity that Obama and Clinton ask from their supporters, many of Senator Obama's following are insisting on funding primary challenges based solely on the incumbent's support for a specific presidential candidate. This includes several members of New York's congressional delegation who backed Clinton and whose African American constituents refuse to get over that fact and actually base their support on their congressman's competence. Even some congressmen who did support Obama, like Steve Cohen of Tenn. and Rep Barrow of Ga., are facing African American primary challenges, either because of the incumbent's race (Cohen) or because of "not supporting Obama quiickly enough."
     This hateful "purge" of the congressional black caucus is one the most distressing events I have hadto witness this campaign season, second only to Kos of Daily Kos saying that Democrats who do not agree with the netroots should be primaried (essentially saying that there is no room for dissent). Clinton supporters could easily by the same token justify campaigns against Obama supporters in New Mexico, South Dakota, Kentucky, West Virginia, etc. However, they (me included) are not the ones choosing to vent their anger on their independent minded congressional representative. It is up to Obama to denounce these challenges and show a true grasp of the unity he so espouses.



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Re: Primary (2.00 / 1)

I would expect Senator Obama to say something to the effect of "It's not right to punish these folks for who they supported during the primaries."  I would expect him to mean it, too.

However, I wouldn't expect him to bend over backwards either.  If real and actual voters are mad at their elected representatives then they should vote them out if they can.

The job of the representative is to actually represent the voters.  Those voters determine whether or not they've gotten good value.

And yes, this cuts both ways.


by Reaper0Bot0 on Tue Jul 01, 2008 at 11:54:37 AM EST

Re: Primary (none / 0)

I am glad you agree with the PUMA movement voting against Obama based on real and legit unhappiness with his behavior.

=)


by dtaylor2 on Tue Jul 01, 2008 at 01:47:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Primary challenges and the presidential race (2.00 / 1)

I can see the argument that Obama shouldn't do anything to help these primary challengers, but he clearly shouldn't condemn them.  These incumbents don't own their seats.  There are Congressmen who backed Obama in pro-Clinton districts who have to explain their vote to constituents, and will be judged accordingly, and that's all as it should be.  Doesn't mean Clinton or Obama should stoke these fires, but incumbents have so many advantages if one gets toppled for this reason you can bet it's not the only issue in play.


by IncognitoErgoSum on Tue Jul 01, 2008 at 11:55:31 AM EST

Re: Primary challenges and the presidential race (none / 0)

Then explain Obama stepping into the  fight between Regina Thomas and John Barrow.


by Ignored and Disgusted on Tue Jul 01, 2008 at 12:17:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Primary challenges and the presidential race (2.00 / 1)

I'm just guessing, but one reason might be that Obama thinks Barrow can win reelection but Thomas would probably lose.  We're really in different territory here, because Barrow 1) is white 2) didn't support Clinton and 3) is running for reelection in a district where white voters make up more than 50% of the electorate.

The issue at stake is really the opposite of the one posed in the article: does Obama have some obligation to support black politicians who supported him early in their primary challenges?  In the case of Thomas vs. Barrow, the answer seems to be a clear "no" (I'm guessing Thomas endorsed him early).

Black-majority districts, as I'm guessing many know, are themselves a complicated topic, because they're often drawn so that black candidates can get elected (and the GOP goes along with this so they can shoe-horn Dems into these districts, giving them a bigger share of the rest of the pie).  

Have no intent to get into this debate now, but one effect of this has been the creating of many safe seats where the incumbent is never challenged.  Barrow vs. Thomas is not one of these (and while I don't know anything about the two candidates this might be marginal seat where the Dems need the powers of incumbency to hold on).

Insofar as these other seats go, though, what you're seeing is a younger class of politicians working to unseat the old warhorses (whom otherwise have a lock).  The first were more likely to back Obama, the second Clinton, but there is a generational dynamic in play which is obvious.

So no, don't think Obama or Clinton should get too involved in this (let the constituents sort it out).  What's interesting about the Barrow race, from what I can see, is that if Obama were simply a blind loyalist he probably should have backed Thomas (but didn't).


by IncognitoErgoSum on Tue Jul 01, 2008 at 01:46:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Primary challenges and the presidential race (none / 0)

in my view, if barrow had not backed obama thomas would have gotten the endorsement. A way of repaying his supporters. And yes I do agree with you that Barrow is more likely to hold the seat than thomas. This situation is actually occuring in several Louisian districts, most likely Cazayoux's, where the AA losing candidate in the primary wants another shot but cannnot win in the ge.


by Ignored and Disgusted on Tue Jul 01, 2008 at 01:52:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Obama didn't lift a finger for John Lewis (2.00 / 4)

when he was being threatened, so Lewis switched his allegiance from Hillary to Obama.


by catfish2 on Tue Jul 01, 2008 at 12:06:01 PM EST

Why on earth would he (2.00 / 1)

support a Clinton supporter against his own supporters during a primary?

Jeebus, teh stupid is strong with this diary.


by Geekesque on Tue Jul 01, 2008 at 12:25:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why on earth would he (2.00 / 4)

What? Stupid you say?

Hillary Clinton won my state's primary and the governor who is also a superdelegate supported Obama after Super Tuesday.

There is a long list of elected officials who have defied their constituencies, John Kerry, Teddy Kennedy, Bill Richardson to name a few.


"No self-respecting woman should wish or work for the success of a party that ignores her." - Susan B. Anthony
by feelfree on Tue Jul 01, 2008 at 12:39:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Umm (2.00 / 1)

The PUMA losers are making a big deal about primarying John Kerry.


by Is This Snark on Tue Jul 01, 2008 at 12:47:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Umm (none / 0)

In my opinion, Kerry is a terrible, do nothing senator but I do not live in Massachussets so I cannot really talk. However, as much as I would like a primary challenge, having kerry lose would involve some democratic defense in this seat, mostly because Obama does not run as strongly as he should here.


by Ignored and Disgusted on Tue Jul 01, 2008 at 01:10:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why on earth would he (none / 0)

and insulting others directly is against the rules.


by Ignored and Disgusted on Tue Jul 01, 2008 at 01:27:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

This diary is stupid, (none / 0)

That's not a personal insult--it's feedback on published material.


by Geekesque on Tue Jul 01, 2008 at 02:55:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Primary challenges and the presidential race (2.00 / 1)

I am certain as this gets around others will begin to examine those congressional members or state elected officials who supported Obama.

This backlash may even affect Obama's electoral tally in November especially in the states which could swing Democratic or Republican.


"No self-respecting woman should wish or work for the success of a party that ignores her." - Susan B. Anthony
by feelfree on Tue Jul 01, 2008 at 12:06:09 PM EST

Re: Primary challenges and the presidential race (none / 0)

I discussed this same sentiment in an earlier diary. Officials like Jason Altimire, Mary Landrieu, Rick Boucher, all of the congressional West Virginia Democrats (Rockefeller, Mollohan, Rahall, Byrd) and others may may have this working against them in their general election races.


by Ignored and Disgusted on Tue Jul 01, 2008 at 01:21:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Primary challenges and the presidential race (none / 0)

CBC showing it's true colors. Can't say I am surprised. No bother guess the Obama leaners in Clinton districts here in San Diego are now fair game.


by Iceblinkjm on Tue Jul 01, 2008 at 12:13:00 PM EST

Re: Primary challenges and the presidential race (none / 0)

If people would use single issue voting, then they would obviously make better choices when they go to the polls. That is why I am not in favor of these single issue primary challenges. (A notable exception is Carolyn Cheeks Kilpatrick, who simultaneously protected he criminal son and tried to ensure that Michigan was not counted in a way that could favor CLinton)


by Ignored and Disgusted on Tue Jul 01, 2008 at 01:25:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Primary challenges and the presidential race (2.00 / 2)

Thank you for your diary. I agree with you and am seeing both sides as well. Call it unity ar whatever, Democrats need to work our shit out or the right will try whatever means to use this against us. If anyone is listening, if you hate Hillary or Barack, please get over yourselves. I am not saying we cannot have reasonable and civil disagreements, but I will no longer pay any attention to the vitriol.


The Moose is on the loose. "And I scream at the top of my lungs, what's going on?"
by Hollede on Tue Jul 01, 2008 at 12:22:36 PM EST

Re: Primary challenges and the presidential race (2.00 / 2)

from either side.


The Moose is on the loose. "And I scream at the top of my lungs, what's going on?"
by Hollede on Tue Jul 01, 2008 at 12:23:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Primary challenges and the presidential race (none / 0)

Thank you for your voice of sanity.


by Ignored and Disgusted on Tue Jul 01, 2008 at 01:07:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Primary challenges and the presidential race (none / 0)

no need to thank, just keep being sane everybody


The Moose is on the loose. "And I scream at the top of my lungs, what's going on?"
by Hollede on Tue Jul 01, 2008 at 05:42:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Shorter diary title: (1.00 / 2)

Those damned angry Negroes don't know their place.

Primary challenges are a part of democracy.  If a Congresscritter's constituents want him or her out, they're out.  If they want to keep them, they're in.


by Geekesque on Tue Jul 01, 2008 at 12:23:55 PM EST

Re: Shorter diary title: (2.00 / 1)

Come on, no derogatory language against people of a certain race.


by Ignored and Disgusted on Tue Jul 01, 2008 at 01:08:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Funny you should mention that (none / 0)

http://www.mydd.com/comments/2008/7/1/11 2611/6742/5#5


by Geekesque on Tue Jul 01, 2008 at 01:13:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Funny you should mention that (none / 0)

conveniently enough your link does not work on my computer. What did I say that is worthy of your criticism?


by Ignored and Disgusted on Tue Jul 01, 2008 at 01:17:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You uprated a disgustingly (none / 0)

race-baiting comment.


by Geekesque on Tue Jul 01, 2008 at 02:43:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Primary challenges and the presidential race (2.00 / 2)

Ok. I am wavering already. I usually like to post a response to the author of the diary without reading any comments. So after writing the above, I started reading comments, and am getting disgusted again.

I guess I would really like to see is for us to stop bashing each other over the heads with racism and sexism. As many have so elequently stated, I see most of the disagreements between us as family disputes that must be worked on. However, I still see the 'other side' as being diametrically opposed to almost everything I believe in. I want to bash the Republicans over the head. You all (mostly), I just want to talk with and try to work things out. Hell, maybe what we need is a great big therapy session. Heh. mostly kidding


The Moose is on the loose. "And I scream at the top of my lungs, what's going on?"
by Hollede on Tue Jul 01, 2008 at 12:34:07 PM EST

Re: Primary challenges and the presidential race (2.00 / 2)

I am a former Clinton supporter who at the moment cannot find a way to trust Obama. While McCain would be worse than Obama, I hate that for me at least I will have to choose the lesser of two evils.(not literally) Many other Clinton supporters, who have been abused by almost militant Obama supporters at D Kos and this site, have formed their own hateful websites like hillaryis44 among others. Obama simply has yet to prove himself to me.


by Ignored and Disgusted on Tue Jul 01, 2008 at 01:15:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Primary challenges and the presidential race (none / 0)

Yeah, so many of them seem really young and charged up. Politics can really bring out the beast in people as well. I think it is really hard for people not to take this all personally when all of the issues facing us seem so dire. I actually think that Hillary would have been the better choice, but I have allowed myself to really take a look at Obama. i am a 'good' Democrat and while I have seriously considered voting for others in the past I seem to stick with the Dems. My question is can we do the leadership thing better than we have in the past and better than the republicans, no wait scratch that no one could be that bad :-P.

Oh and I have come to the conclusion that Barack is a good guy and might just make an awesome president.


The Moose is on the loose. "And I scream at the top of my lungs, what's going on?"
by Hollede on Tue Jul 01, 2008 at 05:48:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Whoa (none / 0)

Even some congressmen who did support Obama, like Steve Cohen of Tenn. and Rep Barrow of Ga., are facing African American primary challenges, either because of the incumbent's race (Cohen)

That's a fairly serious accusation, that AA's are voting against Cohen based on race. A link backing that up would be nice, as the linked article doesn't mention Cohen.

And please, don't tell me it's just obvious.


by Neef on Tue Jul 01, 2008 at 01:29:37 PM EST

Re: Whoa (none / 0)

please read the reply below.


by Ignored and Disgusted on Tue Jul 01, 2008 at 01:53:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Done (2.00 / 2)

That's horrible. Utterly fucked up. I'm an AA, and I am both deeply embarrassed and completely baffled by the attitudes in that piece.

I retract my "Whoa".


by Neef on Tue Jul 01, 2008 at 03:31:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Done (none / 0)

I'm sorry if I caused any offense. It's just that reading about that whole situation made me very angry.


by Ignored and Disgusted on Tue Jul 01, 2008 at 04:22:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

It made me angry too n/t (none / 0)


by Neef on Tue Jul 01, 2008 at 07:27:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Primary challenges and the presidential race (2.00 / 1)

http://www.swingstateproject.com/showDia ry.do?diaryId=2123

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/sleuth/20 08/02/jewish_rep_cohen_battles_antis.htm l

My favorite line form the second link "He's not black and he can't represent me thats the bottom line".
This is the same guy who in order to better service his AA constituents applied for membership in the apparently racist black caucus which denied it to him. By the way, I despise Steve COhen for his disparging remarks about Hillary Clinton but do not think he should be tossed out of office just because he is not black.


by Ignored and Disgusted on Tue Jul 01, 2008 at 01:42:59 PM EST


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